The Future of Steepster
On behalf of someone else who cannot post (paraphrased):
1. *Moderation should be community run; Adagio employees shouldn’t have mod powers (conflict of interest). In an ideal world, the site remains autonomous.
2. In terms of ratings, 0-100 is ambiguous and has always been too broad. Is something a “20” because you personally didn’t like it or was it actually low quality? Something less subjective than a 1-100 sliding scale based on smiley faces should be used.
3. Maybe multi-tiered rating for things such as aroma/body/flavor/etc
4. Something that designates in the tasting note the method of brewing that is more clear/doesn’t need to by typed out by the reviewer in the body of the note.
**Personally adding that while I agree with this, I understand it might not be the most realistic – but if we do end up with Adagio moderators I strongly think it should be explicitly clear who is/isn’t an Adagio employee for traceability and transparency. I would hope, given unfortunate choices made on Tea Chat, it’s understandable why this is a concern that people are having.
And some additional thoughts I had on changes I’d like to see or that I know have been discussed in the past:
1. Similar to how there is a field to input flavours you tasted in a tea, I think a field to input additives you used could be interesting – ex. milk, sugar, honey, soda water, etc – it would be great if you could see both flavours and additives ranked by the “number of times” they’ve been input so you can see both the most common flavours and the most common things people add to that tea.
2. Definitely not something I want to see prioritized, but a long term feature could be the addition of some type of “live chat” on the discussion board? Not sure what this would look like in terms of being implemented and I wouldn’t want it to replace discussion topics which act like long term archived information but this could be a cool feature to explore after an extended discussion to look at all the potential pros/cons.
3. One thing that used to be a thriving part of Steepster was the swaps that happened, and while they do still happen it’s certainly much less frequently – I don’t know what could be done to breathe more life back into this, but it’s an element of community engagement that was truly magical. I think adding a different section to the Steepster “cupboard” though that is specifically teas that users have available and are willing to swap could maybe both help identify what users would be open to swapping and help with user organization. I think this could either be an individual page, like the wish list page, or maybe a “tab” without the cupboard. Something like “Available to swap”. I want to stress that this is something that I think would be good to look at long term, but that I also would not want prioritized.
4. Can we remove the “Select” icon from users names!? It’s been meaningless for a long time now, and is weird to see – especially for new users who don’t know the background.
5. A long time issue has been that when you add new photos to tea pages you cannot then choose which photo is the “main” photo, whatever was uploaded first will always be the main one. Not good for broken links or when companies update products…
5. Another field that would be very valuable to search by in the cupboard/tea ratings pages would be “tea type” – so as an example being able to quickly filter all of the black teas that I own.
6. …also caffeine/verse caffeine free search field.
7. Either fixing or removing the “Click to Buy” link/feature that has never worked properly.
Will probably think of others – but just adding as I recall wishes of the past. These aren’t in a particular order.
I agree with the Bolded Number One strongly and am glad it came up, because I’ve been thinking about it most of today. I’m still trying to formulate a proper ‘Ask’ on what Adagio plans to do for accountability and remaining ‘Neutral’ on Steepster.
Me too – I feel a bit like it’s the elephant in the room, but if I’m going to continue to feel optimistic about the future of Steepster than I think it’s important to at least acknowledge what many of us know has happened in the past.
It sounds, thus far, like there is a genuine interest in preserving the current Steepster archive and getting community feedback and involvement so I personally feel like ignoring this would be disingenuous on all of our parts.
Roswell, please elaborate on your reference to “unfortunate choices made on Tea Chat.” I’ll gladly clarify all misconceptions. For evidence of our objectivity, please see negative comments on TeaChat or one-star reviews on our product pages. We don’t edit them as they lend credibility to the much larger volume of positive reviews that our products and company have garnered over the years. I hope these examples may quell your concern about us editing anything other than spam.
@Michael – It’s pretty well known that several years back there was a not insignificant amount of discussion deleted/censored/whatever you would like to call it from Tea Chat, a fair amount of which was related to alternative vendors/tea companies. This overlapped with the controversial removal of Chip as a Tea Chat admin, as well as drove the creation of Teaforum where many regular Tea Chat contributors transitioned to. There is an old discussion topic covering this that has recently been revived, and AJ has also touched on it below.
Also, I want to say that I do appreciate how forthright and open you have been thus far – I hope you can understand where feelings of unease are coming from; change is rarely welcome even under the best of circumstances. I think it’s healthy to talk openly about fears and reservations we are experiencing – to start from as fresh a slate a possible after years of internalized frustration from having all site support abandoned seemingly overnight and from the perspective of community buy in for future changes and trust of intent.
Roswell, I assure you that no posts on TeaChat were ever removed on account of their tea-related content. TeaChat was created as a forum for all tea drinkers. Over time, a small group of contributors had walled off their discussions from the hoi polloi by creating a “members only” area. After Chip stepped down as TeaChat moderator, we had re-organized the forum and some of the “members only” sections that he created were removed. However, this was not on account of censorship, but as an effort to return the forum to the egalitarian ethos on which it was founded: You need not be a tea snob to participate; you just have to be curious about tea.
I can appreciate the intent of having all content and discussion equally accesible – however in an effort to do that, would it have not been possible to either transfer over the “walled off” information to be publicly viewable as an alternative to removing it? Any loss of information seems like a travesty – especially if the aim was to make the “playing field” (for lack of a better word) even for tea drinkers of all interest and education level.
Given some of the threads that have been revised recently, I think it would be naive to assume that there aren’t some Tea Chat/Tea Forum users following this conversation now – perhaps some of them would like to weigh in? As an observer of what happened & not someone who was part of the Tea Chat community I would like to hear your perspective given this explanation…
I have to say first that I really appreciate that the users are being given the opportunity to share suggestions about the future of this site. Like others here, I’ve been using Steepster for years and it’s become part of my daily life. As Roswell Strange said above, this is a living journal for so many of us. I’ll admit that upon first hearing the news, I was shaken up about it and pretty worried about some of the changes we might see. After seeing Michael’s responses here, it does seem that Adagio is really considering what we have to say as they move forward with the site. I hope it continues to be community-driven because that’s such a big part of why I’m here. I’m so glad to have stumbled upon Steepster so many years ago and so grateful to the founders/creators who made this amazing community possible. A big thanks to Jason and Mike for sticking with us all this time.
As far as suggestions go, I agree with all of the recommendations that have been mentioned already.
• The spam is such a nuisance and it really does clog up the discussion boards, the tea rooms/places section, and the Explore tab.
• The 503 errors when trying to open my inbox or sending a message are a minor annoyance but something that would be nice to have fixed.
• Another small issue would be the occasional page formatting error when the only way to view notes is to “fake edit” the page to get it back to normal.
• I also wish we could do something about the broken picture links.
• The options on each tea page to view company info/details and/or notify when a tea is available/link to purchase would be a nice addition if it can be fixed.
• And yes, LuckyMe – the decimals!
• Mobile functionality would be a nice addition (especially so we can actually move the ratings bar on our phones) and I do agree with others who have said that social media integration would be a big plus. I would love to be able to look at a user’s bio and find their social media accounts as well as share my own. A lot of us have them and it would be great to become even more connected with each other that way.
• Along those lines, I hope the Steepster social media accounts will also be updated regularly. It would be good to connect with Steepster there as well.
• I would like to be able to add new ingredients when adding or editing a tea and new flavors when rating a tea.
• A thorough cleanup of not only spam “teas” but also duplicate teas would be great.
• If someone adds the wrong name for a tea company, we should be able to remove it from the companies list instead of having, for example, DAVIDsTEA, davidstea, and David’s Tea to choose from. That only makes things confusing. We need to consolidate those.
• This is a personal one for me, not sure if anyone else would like it, but I’ve always wished there was a way to compare wishlists and cupboards between users. This would be especially useful for swaps.
• I really like the layout of Steepster as is. I don’t think the foundation needs to change. Aside from the bugs and spam, the setup is really nice here. I’d be sad if it became a carbon copy of Adagio’s other websites.
• I understand there will probably be ads at some point, but I would be open to a membership option in the future for those of us who would like to opt out.
• I think it’s really important that there is no censorship here, that we can all continue to speak freely as we have been. I’m not saying that would necessarily happen, but I want to know that I can speak honestly about my day, my tea, whatever without my comment being deleted or my account being temporarily suspended.
I’ll add more as they come up for me, but this is where I’m at for now. Thanks again for the opportunity to share. I’m really hoping this is a great move forward for the Steepster community. Looking forward to hearing more about Adagio’s plans after the 15th.
Agree with all your points, but the one I think is very valid that could be community managed is the merging/correction of incorrectly listed companies (DAVIDsTEA, David’s Tea, davidstea, etc). I’m not saying everyone should have the ability to do that, but I think it could likely be incorporated into moderator powers if that’s something that is expanded.
I’d definitely like to see moderator powers enhanced to general bans/topic deletion and the ability to prune the database like that. It’s so bloody frustrating trying to tidy up the database with limited tools.
I have always wished that I could clean up duplicate records — I am a professional librarian as my day-job, and that is quite literally what I’m paid to do… merge cataloging records in a multi-library consortium that shares million of cataloging files so we don’t have tons of unnecessary duplicates. I used to send pages and pages of duplicates I’d found to the previous admin but nothing was ever done about it… one of my biggest pet peeves, probably because it gets on that “librarian nerve” I have.
Yes, a good tidying is definitely in order. I’m grateful to the moderators for keeping this space as clean as you can with the tools you have. (I don’t know who the moderators are, but I’m assuming the three of you are part of this group?)
I am not. I had asked to be one, was even sent the “agreement” to be one by Jason, which I replied to and accepted, and he never bothered to switch my account over so I could delete the spam. The whole situation actually left a really bad taste in my mouth.
Like Mastress Alita, I am also professional librarian in my day job, doing database management and merging cataloging records to keep the database clean, and I’d be happy to help her and others with cleaning up the duplicate vendors here — maybe even creating some sort of authority record with cross references to other versions of the vendor’s name (e.g., updates/changes or different ways the vendors advertise themselves). That would be a tremendous improvement upon the way vendor names can currently be listed by anyone — misspellings and all.
I also fully agree with Shae that a mobile-friendly interface for Steepster would be wonderful. It doesn’t have to be an app, but at least have the site recognize when a user opens it on a mobile device and respond accordingly. This is now fairly standard for catalogs and databases — and Steepster has characteristics of an interactive database/catalog for its users.
If an expansion of moderators (both in quantity and capabilities) is in mind (as I think it should be), I would like to really emphasize that I think Mastress Alita should be prioritized since she was already in the process of becoming one (and then was abandoned). That is, of course, if she still has an interest.
Speaking for my colleagues at Adagio, we would be honored to accept as much assistance in improving Steepster as you would be willing to provide. We have no plans to micromanage the site, only to preserve it and make it easier to use.
I would agree to have Mastress Alita as a person of power on the site. I think her qualifications as a Librarian with her organization skills would be a asset to have access to anything on the site.
I’m not sure how many moderators there are currently, but I would be happy to help if more people are needed. I don’t have the same background as Mastress Alita and teepland (though I’ve always wanted to be a librarian!), but I do have some experience editing/publishing our internal site at work so I could learn if that would be helpful.
Given the controversial nature of Adagio taking over a site whose entire ‘Base’ is being a nonpartisan third-party rating website, I think it’s fair to ask what Adagio plans to do with Steepster, in regards to it being a Neutral Site.
I understand as a company, this purchase will never purely be ‘out of the goodness of our hearts’. It pays to have a site where people can compare teas. I’ve been thinking about how to word this post most of today and yesterday, and Roswell’s already gotten out so many other important points, but it’s worth being said, I think:
• Adagio has already agreed to maintain the current database of information on Steepster, which was a Large Concern given Teachat and puts many of our minds at ease.
• Steepster is a Community that welcomes tea companies to post and interact. How will that continue going forward? Yes, given Adagio’s history with Teachat. Will these companies be allowed to continue and protected, even though they are Adagio’s competition? We have largely self-moderated HOW we allow companies to post and avertise here, but they do advertise, and it is allowed. How will this change going forward?
• Steepsterites talk about companies controversies. Like Adagio and Teachat, as can be seen in the topic that recently got bumped (and I can’t claim credit for that). How will censorship be treated? If Adagio is painted in a negative light, if other companies are?
• Keeping in mind that Adagio is not highly rated on Steepster. That’s not meant to be harsh, but Steepster follows trends, and moves as a group through these and Adagio isn’t ‘it’ right now. What are the plans to address this? Will Adagio attempt to push for Adagio-centric discussion? Find ways to keep Adagio ‘relevant’?
• How will Adagio interact with Steepster? This includes many points:
…> Will Adagio make it obvious that Steepster is now an affiliate of theirs? Will Adagio promos be posted in the forums? Events? Steepster’s always had strict rules for how companies advertise. Will Adagio follow these, or be given more prominence/spotlight?
…> Will Adagio link to Steepster from the Adagio website, or recommend people go to Steepster to post ratings for their teas? Companies already do this, but if Steepster replaces Adagio’s own rating system, this could be an unfair influence.
…> I think, in general, Adagio’s plans/practices when it comes to advertising between the two sites in general. See the last bullet-point.
• What are Adagio’s thoughts on how THEY handled Teachat, and what do they plan to do to address this, and (hopefully) not repeat these mistakes?
AJ, it is not in our nature to stifle dissent or abridge speech. All comments and posts pertaining to tea will be welcome, regardless of their source. There is no need for Adagio to make Steepster an outlet for propaganda as we’re quite effective in communicating with customers directly. And there are no plans to replace the product reviews on our website with Steepster tasting notes. You’ll soon see improvements to how Steepster works, but it and Adagio Teas will remain two separate entities. Big Brother is not taking over. I assure you of that!
From Martin Bednář, who is also unable to write to the discussion boards but has some suggestions to share for the new owners. Martin gave me permission to post the following from a recent tea note -
Yes, I am happy that it won’t die as Adagio decided to take part. Certainly a great news, but on the other hand… it is a vendor; so I hope they won’t benefit their products, it should stay ad-free and I would really enjoy if it stays like this all the time. Keep users adding teas(teaware) without review by some admin, easy-way to write tasting note.
Keep it similar/same. Don’t do big changes yet. Fix the troubles we experience now, then listen to us and in the end do new.
For a long time I’ve been hoping for some kind of solution regarding the future of Steepster.
Jason and Mike, thank you for running the site for so long. I perfectly understand that your careers and obligations had changed. I’m glad that you managed to find a suitable successor.
Because I do think that Adagio is a suitable successor. Unless I’m proven otherwise, I hope that they will revive the site, repair what needs to be repaired, add some long overdue improvements and, above else, keep everything that is the heart of Steepster: countless reviews and discussions. Michael and others @ Adagio: good luck with the task!
A lot of people have already listed the necessary improvements, so I have only a few ideas:
- the ability to remove unnecessary/blank/broken images;
- the detailed search system, allowing to look for teas based on their type, keywords from the reviews and ingredients;
- some easier way of suggesting the new ingredients (the “send mail” option is far from being a good way);
- some kind of a recommendation system, suggesting the new teas to try based on our previous ratings and local availability (and not just the Adagio teas ;) ).
Another idea for an update – the ability to “tag” other users in tasting notes so that they can see when they’re referenced. Right now we typically bold the users name so it stands out, but especially for people infrequently logging in I’m sure mentions are often missed. It’s nice to give credit/acknowledgement when you received a tea from someone in a swap or brewed it a specific way based on their tasting note/recommendation…
I don’t think this has been mentioned yet, apologies if so, but I would love to be able to search my cupboard by ingredient. So if, for example, I want a tea with apples I wouldn’t have to click through several tea pages and look at each ingredient list to find all the teas with apples listed as an ingredient. This isn’t a big deal, but it would be a nice addition.
I actually created an Excel spreadsheet for my entire collection just so I would have this specific ability (being able to sort by ingredient)! I also use it for various other sort functions (like, tea type [black, herbal, etc., date purchased, quantity, etc.) Glad to know there are others out there with my weird quirks as well. :-)
…thinking a bit on how an update of the discussion board might look, in particular the different sub-boards (ex. Steepster Talk, General, Promotions) and what I would like to see happen with them.
Personally, I think there needs to be some better definition of some of the categories – in particular the Tea Rooms and Retail and Tea Companies and Promotions sections. If I want to post asking a question about a tea company with a brick and mortar location, like Camellia Sinensis, is it more appropriate for me to post that in the Retail board or in the Companies board? What if the location doesn’t have brick and mortar? There’s a lot of ambiguity.
I think a good divide MIGHT be to split between topics started BY companies pertaining to their company as well as promotional/sales threads versus questions/discussion about a company.
Ex. Adagio asks what community opinion is about their new Cocktail collection versus a commnunity member asks what everyone’s favourite tea from the Cocktail collection is. However, this option feels like it could lead to redundancy in discussion topics and could be a slippery slope to manage.
OR
To split promotions into its own sub board entirely and to merge conversations about tea companies/from tea companies into their own shared board. I’d like to hear thoughts/preferences from others about this…
Additionally, I think it would be good to have a completely separate board about site issues so that threads like the “Spammers on Steepster” thread aren’t crowding the general or “Steepster Talk” boards. Again, just my own preference so I want to hear what other people think…
Everyone has pretty much said everything I wanted to say. I am also one of the users who logs in regularly to remove spam and check in on how others are doing. I think it is vital that we address the spam problem before we tackle other issues.
The biggest issue I have with this change is that there may be commercialization issues. I’m all for more users finding out about the site, but I don’t want to see a tea vendor being able to influence reviews or comments about itself or other vendors. I don’t want to see ads in this site. I worry that once the site becomes operated by a commercial company that future updates might not be completely based on community feedback. This site is so important to us. But what will happen if the site does not generate revenue for the parent company?
as for possible updates, I think we need to be able to add tasting note suggestions somehow. Possibly a “request” option where users could request a certain word be added to potential tasting note options. Without some form of moderation, it would quickly become too numerous. There would be a lot of irrelevant tasting note words that wouldn’t actually be useful to other users.
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