need help deciphering tasting notes

Thanks for the description of fermentation flavour! There is definitely a difference between “gross dirt” and “forest loam” IMO.

The first time I bought [insert random ebay shou puerh cake] I was greeted with the taste of fish.

Took the cake a few months to air out and now it tastes earthy.

Its taken me a while to like the (sometimes quite bitter) taste of sheng. Shou is still something I am getting used to.

Thanks CL, this is very helpful.

Shou pu always needs time to air out. I usually wait 6 months to a year on the new stuff. The stuff vendors sell with age on them I just let them acclimate for a week or so after I get them in.

I want to strongly echo what mrmopar is saying here. These teas need to rest and air to taste their best. Some are only lightly pile fermented or may be mixed with raw tea to add depth later on after years of aging. These teas will require even more years of aging. You have to know what the cake or sample consists of and the fermentation level, something that becomes evident over time.

Having said that, we have some reviewers on here who mainly drink shou, and are experienced in tasting a shou that isn’t “ready” and they are able to evaluate a great deal about the potential of the tea in the future. One such reviewer is Allan. He often tastes a tea when he gets it to evaluate it as a purchase. His tasting notes reflect this.

So how would you recommend letting them air out if you don’t have a special contraption for it?

So how would you recommend letting them air out if you don’t have a special contraption for it?

@kristinalee, I would wait at least a week after unsealing them. I think transport, especially from Chima, when the tea is sealed it can lose a lot of notes. Letting it rest after you get it in will help the tea out. If you ever tried this sometimes you might think you have two different teas on hand.

@mrmopar: Thanks, good to know. I’ve had them all for a while, so I guess opening them is safe. I did try a Verdant puerh once immediately after getting the sample — maybe that’s why I disliked it so much. Hm…

I think they need the time to get some air and moisture back in them. The fresh arrivals are sometimes a bit flat. Another trick is after the rinse let the tea sit for 15-30 minutes and just let the moisture get in the leaf.

I think the most important sitting period is the first 6 months after pressing. The leaves are steamed to make them pressable and that water vapor will hang around in the cakes for about 6 months as long as there’s adequate room to breathe, otherwise it can take even longer. This translates to the brewed tea as a watery, muted kind of taste. Shou holds more moisture than sheng, so that waiting period is more like 3-4 months for sheng. I’d recommend a week of letting a tea air out after it arrives, and knowing the time of pressing will help decide if you should wait longer or not, though it is nice to learn by tasting stuff immediately after it arrives (I do this).

As for the fermentation taste, it’s a by-product of wo dui process and is also known as dui wei. Wo dui = wet piling, dui wei = the fermentation flavor.

Over time, dui wei will fade. In my experience, lighter fermentation will fade faster and also age better. You can tell what’s lighter fermentation by looking for green tinge on the leaves.

Badly done wo dui = fishy or just generally gross. Even some well done shou may have a bit of the fishy notes, but these will fade. If it tastes like you’re drinking dirt blended with dead fish it’s probably best to introduce the cake to your garbage can. :-P

Bad shou will never be good shou. ;-)

Also worth noting that we are in the golden age of shou right now… The stuff being produced right now is worlds better than almost anything produced in the past. :)

@Whispering Pines: All interesting and helpful, thanks.

Interesting. Thanks for mentioning it — I hadn’t seen that one yet.

Ooh, that sounds like an unfortunate experience.

No, quite the opposite. I was tasting strong fermentation. It gives me an idea of where the tea is at, in its storage cycle. I learned a lot from it, the tea will be excellent someday, but it is a large brick and will take longer because of the size.

Same thing with loose maocha. Loose pu will age a lot quicker than a pressed one.

Loose will air out a lot faster than compressed. Breaking up a cake essentially gets it back into loose form; more or less.

All right, so why is it usually pressed? For the purpose of slowing the aging? Just because of tradition?

It was traditionally pressed to ease in transport. Puerh made a long journey from Yunnan to Tibet and Eastern China. It’s hard to carry 60kg of loose leaf, but 60kg of compressed cakes takes up relatively little room on the back of a mule.

Compressing it will also create a sort of closed ecosystem of sorts. The tea inside is more protected. Different people will swear that different compression levels are ideal. Heavier compressed cakes will age longer than loosely pressed cakes. If you’re looking to age cakes 30-50years or more you might see an advantage with heavy compression. We compressed ours looser so they’ll age quicker.

Even these days it is a lot easier to package tea for shipment overseas if it is compressed and small. Loose leaf tea takes up a LOT of room.

Interesting — didn’t know any of this.

@kristinalee puerh has a lot of room for learning. I’m still learning more every year.

+1 to everything CL said, and there’s also definitely a noticeable flavor difference in a compressed pu-erh vs. loose. Generally I’ve noticed increased infusability and a more rounded overall flavor after compression.

… I dunno if I can handle puerh patience! Having tea taunt me while it takes a week to adjust… its like… EVIL!!! I’m the kind of gal who will get a bunch of tea samples and rip into every single one of them to sniff asap. I dunno if I can do this!! hahaha

@azurephoenix but the reward will be great..

Does camphor also have the cooling effect? I just use ‘menthol’ for that when it pops up, but I do know what tiger balm & cardamom smell like

You bet! A lot of pain relief products actually use camphor oil for its cooling effect. Maybe that’s how they get that minty but waxy smell of Vick’s vaporub

When I started drinking puerh I occasionally noticed this as more of an aroma than a taste and used terms like mint or menthol, but then realized that this was what people meant by camphor. I don’t recall ever smelling camphor. Best way to try it is an older wet-stored puerh.

One of my shengs does it to me all the time.

Heh, yeah, I I think that cold sore medication Camphophenique (which may not even be around anymore) used it too. But yeah, I use Vicks and Ben-gay and similar products, and I haven’t really tasted this in my tea yet. Like you, I’ve noticed more mint or menthol.

It can mean a couple of things. It could be used to jokingly refer to a tea that isn’t great for drinking right now. It can also be used to describe a tea that presents the characteristics of teas that will develop into something great in 20+ years time. I’ve not actually personally aged a tea 20+ years and I don’t know of many that have (stateside). So I borrow from the wisdom of those who have come before me.

I do find it ironic that most good tea gets drunk now and most bad tea gets put away with the thought that it will get better with time. Makes me think most people are only aging the teas they don’t like drinking now. :-)

Wet vs Dry is an interesting thing to compare side by side. We’ve had some identical teas that have been stored wet vs dry for a decade and it is fascinating to try them side by side. The dry stored example in general is more floral and aromatic. The wet stored stuff more musty and earthy. Musty in a good way though. I guess either you like it or you don’t. A lot of the vendors we work with in Yunnan like to store their tea for a decade or so in say Guangdong (humid) then bring it back to Kunming (dry) to mellow. They think that gives the tea a good early kick into aging and then a chance to coast after that.

I know people like musty, but I’m putting myself down for dry storage for now.

It does take a while for the tea to get ‘musty’. I’ve got some teas that were stored in humid environments for 10 years and they’re not musty yet.

The cups are 20ml and the gaiwan is 90ml. I think the teapot is around 200ml and the fairness cup maybe 240ish. It looks like I forgot to update the site with the numbers. :-)

Thanks.